@Artem-Kozirev said in #273:
> Hello this issue is yet being discussed in another area of the forum in the lichess feedback section. Now that you say "Ask anything to lichess" I send the question before moderators ban me. The below lines deserve at least a serious and mature debate without trolls or moderators with their finger jumping on the trigger.
>
> My feedback is to change the below articles from your TOS which are wrong in my view and against any democratic and good value of any free community. You will never find in any Constitution of any free country anything like those articles in TOS.
>
> I challenge lichess and you(I can't remember who was this "who" someone in the forum) to PROVE that those articles in your TOS are typical of any democratic and free space e.g. European Union, US or any free country's Constitution and not typical of a dictatorship.
>
> From that starting point of the TOS which is your foundational stone no more and no less than lichess Constitution nothing can be derived independent and of course moderation also not, in any case with those articles the derivations can be called the fruits of the poisoned tree.
>
> As I have already stated this problem is not exclusive of lichess. Chess.com and Chess24 are even worse in that order (We could analyze their TOS in separate threads if you like, Niemman's case will shed light to the obscenes -in terms of blasting people's rights under the umbrella of holes in the existing law- clauses in chess.com). I as a user want tose articles changed in your TOS and lichess would do well to change that for the benefit of lichess and of course for the benefit of all the users of our community. I personally do not support dictatorship or the like.
>
> Those articles in any Constitution or foundational stone of a free space are at least embarrasing unless you are a dictatorship and in that case you can show off your "trophies". In my view those articles are nothing to be proud of. I as user agreed to those TOS ( I have repeated this nth times as well) but it doesn't mean I like them and that's why I want them changed. People do not read the small letters in the contracts and you never imagine that a site promoting values like open source, a charitable organization (not a private club) in France 2022 would have those kind of articles. I want them changed ! but not just a change for the same thing and meaning written with other words, a change for the real thing. I do not want to spend my hours, months and days and years in a cybersite that can terminate with my cyberlife at any time without giving reasons or without consequences. The current situation is the user account can be terminated based on the fact that someone does not like you and you will never know. In some countries (surely not the free and democratic ones ) by law if you speak in a way that someone understands is against the leader you are imprisioned. My cyberlife means all my contacts, friends, everything that has come up from the relationships I establish and that are part of my real life as well. I do have the right that my account is not terminated at anytime without a reason and just because somebody (some *****) in any organization does not like me. That is a CYBER HUMAN RIGHT ! In countries like the US where many States have the death penalty they guarantee a fair trial and it is public and the Judges in Court are not just anyone volunteering and wasting their time for scam like me. No right has ever been conquered without titanic fight and without outrageous pain and blood shed that is a fact, from the 8 working hours, rest days, holidays, etc. to the right of an education, to the right of children an endless fight. Come to my memory the echoes of the French Revolution.
>
> The question is if lichess DARES to jump onto the wagon of human cyber rights or cyber human rights whatever, that wagon is the future.
>
> This is only the tip of the iceberg... you can't build without having a solid ground first.The perfect contract does not exist but I can tell you about a component which cannot be missed in any relationship and that is trust and you don't build trust without freedom.
>
> From Lichess Terms of Service:
>
> "1) It is important to note that you agree our word is final, and that penalties will be applied at our discretion, and that we have no obligation or duty to provide you with our evidence or reasoning.
>
> 2) In addition to the Fair Play and Community Guidelines, we reserve the right to exclude people from using our services at our sole discretion, and to determine what constitutes abuse of our services, insofar as the relevant licenses and statute allow for.
>
> 3) You understand that by using our website and services, you may be exposed to content that might be offensive, harmful, pornographic, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate. In some cases, you may be exposed to content that is mislabelled or is otherwise deceptive.
>
> 4) In all circumstances, you agree that we have the right to partially or fully suspend or terminate your access to our website and services (such as banning or closing your account), for any reason without warning, and without having to substantiate, clarify or otherwise provide evidence of your breach of these Terms.
>
> 5) It is important to note that you agree our word is final, and that penalties will be applied at our discretion, and that we have no obligation or duty to provide you with our evidence or reasoning. In some jurisdictions, this will not affect your statutory rights."
Post it on the discord
> Hello this issue is yet being discussed in another area of the forum in the lichess feedback section. Now that you say "Ask anything to lichess" I send the question before moderators ban me. The below lines deserve at least a serious and mature debate without trolls or moderators with their finger jumping on the trigger.
>
> My feedback is to change the below articles from your TOS which are wrong in my view and against any democratic and good value of any free community. You will never find in any Constitution of any free country anything like those articles in TOS.
>
> I challenge lichess and you(I can't remember who was this "who" someone in the forum) to PROVE that those articles in your TOS are typical of any democratic and free space e.g. European Union, US or any free country's Constitution and not typical of a dictatorship.
>
> From that starting point of the TOS which is your foundational stone no more and no less than lichess Constitution nothing can be derived independent and of course moderation also not, in any case with those articles the derivations can be called the fruits of the poisoned tree.
>
> As I have already stated this problem is not exclusive of lichess. Chess.com and Chess24 are even worse in that order (We could analyze their TOS in separate threads if you like, Niemman's case will shed light to the obscenes -in terms of blasting people's rights under the umbrella of holes in the existing law- clauses in chess.com). I as a user want tose articles changed in your TOS and lichess would do well to change that for the benefit of lichess and of course for the benefit of all the users of our community. I personally do not support dictatorship or the like.
>
> Those articles in any Constitution or foundational stone of a free space are at least embarrasing unless you are a dictatorship and in that case you can show off your "trophies". In my view those articles are nothing to be proud of. I as user agreed to those TOS ( I have repeated this nth times as well) but it doesn't mean I like them and that's why I want them changed. People do not read the small letters in the contracts and you never imagine that a site promoting values like open source, a charitable organization (not a private club) in France 2022 would have those kind of articles. I want them changed ! but not just a change for the same thing and meaning written with other words, a change for the real thing. I do not want to spend my hours, months and days and years in a cybersite that can terminate with my cyberlife at any time without giving reasons or without consequences. The current situation is the user account can be terminated based on the fact that someone does not like you and you will never know. In some countries (surely not the free and democratic ones ) by law if you speak in a way that someone understands is against the leader you are imprisioned. My cyberlife means all my contacts, friends, everything that has come up from the relationships I establish and that are part of my real life as well. I do have the right that my account is not terminated at anytime without a reason and just because somebody (some *****) in any organization does not like me. That is a CYBER HUMAN RIGHT ! In countries like the US where many States have the death penalty they guarantee a fair trial and it is public and the Judges in Court are not just anyone volunteering and wasting their time for scam like me. No right has ever been conquered without titanic fight and without outrageous pain and blood shed that is a fact, from the 8 working hours, rest days, holidays, etc. to the right of an education, to the right of children an endless fight. Come to my memory the echoes of the French Revolution.
>
> The question is if lichess DARES to jump onto the wagon of human cyber rights or cyber human rights whatever, that wagon is the future.
>
> This is only the tip of the iceberg... you can't build without having a solid ground first.The perfect contract does not exist but I can tell you about a component which cannot be missed in any relationship and that is trust and you don't build trust without freedom.
>
> From Lichess Terms of Service:
>
> "1) It is important to note that you agree our word is final, and that penalties will be applied at our discretion, and that we have no obligation or duty to provide you with our evidence or reasoning.
>
> 2) In addition to the Fair Play and Community Guidelines, we reserve the right to exclude people from using our services at our sole discretion, and to determine what constitutes abuse of our services, insofar as the relevant licenses and statute allow for.
>
> 3) You understand that by using our website and services, you may be exposed to content that might be offensive, harmful, pornographic, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate. In some cases, you may be exposed to content that is mislabelled or is otherwise deceptive.
>
> 4) In all circumstances, you agree that we have the right to partially or fully suspend or terminate your access to our website and services (such as banning or closing your account), for any reason without warning, and without having to substantiate, clarify or otherwise provide evidence of your breach of these Terms.
>
> 5) It is important to note that you agree our word is final, and that penalties will be applied at our discretion, and that we have no obligation or duty to provide you with our evidence or reasoning. In some jurisdictions, this will not affect your statutory rights."
Post it on the discord
